Comments on: The Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality of Open Source Software http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/ Resources for librarians who are interested in the application of web design and technologies in libraries Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:25:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: reflections » First law: Software is for use http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/comment-page-1/#comment-20382 reflections » First law: Software is for use Fri, 23 Feb 2007 04:23:09 +0000 http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/#comment-20382 [...] While it seems clear that developers release code under an open source license so that it can be used in some way, it doesn’t necessarily follow that they are thinking of end users with limited technical skills when they do so. They might simply be hoping to encourage other developers to study and then improve the software. This could be one of the reasons for the Jekyll and Hyde personality of open source projects Karen Coombs recently discussed, with some developers releasing their code primarily for other developers, and not for end users. [...] [...] While it seems clear that developers release code under an open source license so that it can be used in some way, it doesn’t necessarily follow that they are thinking of end users with limited technical skills when they do so. They might simply be hoping to encourage other developers to study and then improve the software. This could be one of the reasons for the Jekyll and Hyde personality of open source projects Karen Coombs recently discussed, with some developers releasing their code primarily for other developers, and not for end users. [...]

]]> By: Basement Tapes » The Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality of Open Source Software http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/comment-page-1/#comment-20044 Basement Tapes » The Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality of Open Source Software Mon, 12 Feb 2007 22:13:01 +0000 http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/#comment-20044 [...] Library Web Chic » Blog Archive » The Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality of Open Source Software [...] [...] Library Web Chic » Blog Archive » The Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality of Open Source Software [...]

]]> By: K.G. Schneider http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/comment-page-1/#comment-19944 K.G. Schneider Fri, 09 Feb 2007 01:27:50 +0000 http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/#comment-19944 This is a really crucial thread. I'd add that what Dorothea and I may be getting at is that the intermediary layer isn't valued and is quickly rebuffed. You have to be pretty determined to hang in there. This is a really crucial thread. I’d add that what Dorothea and I may be getting at is that the intermediary layer isn’t valued and is quickly rebuffed. You have to be pretty determined to hang in there.

]]> By: Karen http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/comment-page-1/#comment-19923 Karen Wed, 07 Feb 2007 22:09:03 +0000 http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/#comment-19923 I guess my WP questions haven't risen to the level where I needed a developer to help. I agree sometimes I wonder what they are thinking because they don't add functionality I want. Thank god for plugins! Most of my questions are pretty low to intermediate level and I think get fielded by non-developers who are users or powerusers, which is what I like about the forums there. I agree the intermediary layer is serious lacking on open source projects. It worries me quite a bit because I think that ultimately it will effect the success of the project. Will have to talk to you more about Fedora in the future as we are looking at it as a potential option here. I guess my WP questions haven’t risen to the level where I needed a developer to help. I agree sometimes I wonder what they are thinking because they don’t add functionality I want. Thank god for plugins! Most of my questions are pretty low to intermediate level and I think get fielded by non-developers who are users or powerusers, which is what I like about the forums there. I agree the intermediary layer is serious lacking on open source projects. It worries me quite a bit because I think that ultimately it will effect the success of the project.

Will have to talk to you more about Fedora in the future as we are looking at it as a potential option here.

]]> By: ksclarke http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/comment-page-1/#comment-19922 ksclarke Wed, 07 Feb 2007 22:07:14 +0000 http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/#comment-19922 Just one more thing then I'll stop... I promise! It's also worth noting that not all open source projects want vibrant communities. If the application was just developed to scratch the developer's own itch, it may not be something that s/he wants to start providing support for, develop and infrastructure around, etc. While that is frustrating to us as users, I don't think we, the users, should necessarily drive every open source project. The beauty of open source is that, if there are other people out there who think a project has more potential than the developer thinks it does, they are welcome to build the project into what they want it to be (providing they have all the skills to do that... communication, coding, managing, supporting, etc.) Okay, done for real now. Just one more thing then I’ll stop… I promise! It’s also worth noting that not all open source projects want vibrant communities. If the application was just developed to scratch the developer’s own itch, it may not be something that s/he wants to start providing support for, develop and infrastructure around, etc.

While that is frustrating to us as users, I don’t think we, the users, should necessarily drive every open source project. The beauty of open source is that, if there are other people out there who think a project has more potential than the developer thinks it does, they are welcome to build the project into what they want it to be (providing they have all the skills to do that… communication, coding, managing, supporting, etc.)

Okay, done for real now.

]]> By: ksclarke http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/comment-page-1/#comment-19921 ksclarke Wed, 07 Feb 2007 22:00:23 +0000 http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/#comment-19921 I agree that a vibrant community needs all different types of people. I also didn't mean to suggest that it needs to be a commercial entity that negotiates between the two. It can be a charismatic person or even some sort of non-profit that agrees to shepherd a project. I believe, for instance, Fedora is moving towards this sort of thing. My point was just that asking developers to be the public face of the project isn't always (but sometimes it is... again, depending on the developer) the best way to build vibrant communities. That is really the job, imho, of a coordinator, manager, or shepherding body that really knows how to talk to both sides (what we are talking about, I think, is really a communication problem -- the sides don't know how to talk to each other). The "problem" with open source, I'll maintain, is there are too few projects that have this intermediary layer. Though I love WP, in my experience, I wouldn't cite it as an example of a successful open source community (it is a successful open source product though). There have been so many times I've considered looking at other options because I felt the developers weren't responsive to the needs of the community (and even blatantly ignored them). The thing with many open source projects, even large ones like WP, is that there isn't really that intermediary layer (like there should be). Anyway, that's my two cents... I agree that a vibrant community needs all different types of people. I also didn’t mean to suggest that it needs to be a commercial entity that negotiates between the two. It can be a charismatic person or even some sort of non-profit that agrees to shepherd a project. I believe, for instance, Fedora is moving towards this sort of thing.

My point was just that asking developers to be the public face of the project isn’t always (but sometimes it is… again, depending on the developer) the best way to build vibrant communities. That is really the job, imho, of a coordinator, manager, or shepherding body that really knows how to talk to both sides (what we are talking about, I think, is really a communication problem — the sides don’t know how to talk to each other). The “problem” with open source, I’ll maintain, is there are too few projects that have this intermediary layer.

Though I love WP, in my experience, I wouldn’t cite it as an example of a successful open source community (it is a successful open source product though). There have been so many times I’ve considered looking at other options because I felt the developers weren’t responsive to the needs of the community (and even blatantly ignored them). The thing with many open source projects, even large ones like WP, is that there isn’t really that intermediary layer (like there should be).

Anyway, that’s my two cents…

]]> By: Karen http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/comment-page-1/#comment-19920 Karen Wed, 07 Feb 2007 21:32:17 +0000 http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/#comment-19920 I don't really want developers to do software support on their open source software. What I do want is for them to value the contribution that people who do software support for open source software bring to the equation. I think commercial models for support of open source software are great, but ultimately support has to feed back into development. If EVERY user makes the same mistake or has the same question then probably something about the software needs changing. But I digress. My main point was that a vibrant community for a particular piece of open source software needs to includes all different types of people: developers, administrators, user support folks, end users, etc. I've seen some of this when using the support forums for Wordpress. With other open source software, this is not the case. I don’t really want developers to do software support on their open source software. What I do want is for them to value the contribution that people who do software support for open source software bring to the equation. I think commercial models for support of open source software are great, but ultimately support has to feed back into development. If EVERY user makes the same mistake or has the same question then probably something about the software needs changing. But I digress. My main point was that a vibrant community for a particular piece of open source software needs to includes all different types of people: developers, administrators, user support folks, end users, etc. I’ve seen some of this when using the support forums for Wordpress. With other open source software, this is not the case.

]]> By: ksclarke http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/comment-page-1/#comment-19887 ksclarke Tue, 06 Feb 2007 15:54:14 +0000 http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2007/02/06/the-dr-jekyll-and-mr-hyde-personality-of-open-source-software/#comment-19887 Writing software and doing a good job of documenting (for a user community... which is different than documenting for the developer community), providing support (for a user community) and just plain building that user community (which is time consuming in and of itself) seem like very different things to me. Expecting something different is a bit like thinking just anyone (your average cataloger, for instance) will be a good reference librarian -- which I realize is something many people in the library community believe. I think there are specific skill sets and different people succeed in their own areas (not that you can't find people who do well in both categories!), but I'm not sure why you'd expect to in the majority of cases. I think open source communities (not just the library ones) have always realized this. In much of the open source literature you'll find mention of the need for commercial support of the software (RedHat provides this for Linux; LibLime for several library software packages; Equinox for Evergreen, etc.). It is why people say open source isn't anti-commercial. There has always been, I think, a recognition that for true end user support there needs to be a service that is available and that exists apart from the development community. The "problem" with this, of course, is that it is a bit of a catch 22 -- you need a community to make this commercially viable but often times you don't get a strong community until you have something like this in place. Anyway (enough rambling), I agree that many developers do an abysmal job of supporting their software. Expecting them to be software support though seems a bit like expecting software support people to be developers. While it would be nice if we all could be expertly skilled at any thing we try to do, there are, I think, realistic restrictions on this. Writing software and doing a good job of documenting (for a user community… which is different than documenting for the developer community), providing support (for a user community) and just plain building that user community (which is time consuming in and of itself) seem like very different things to me.

Expecting something different is a bit like thinking just anyone (your average cataloger, for instance) will be a good reference librarian — which I realize is something many people in the library community believe. I think there are specific skill sets and different people succeed in their own areas (not that you can’t find people who do well in both categories!), but I’m not sure why you’d expect to in the majority of cases.

I think open source communities (not just the library ones) have always realized this. In much of the open source literature you’ll find mention of the need for commercial support of the software (RedHat provides this for Linux; LibLime for several library software packages; Equinox for Evergreen, etc.). It is why people say open source isn’t anti-commercial.

There has always been, I think, a recognition that for true end user support there needs to be a service that is available and that exists apart from the development community. The “problem” with this, of course, is that it is a bit of a catch 22 — you need a community to make this commercially viable but often times you don’t get a strong community until you have something like this in place.

Anyway (enough rambling), I agree that many developers do an abysmal job of supporting their software. Expecting them to be software support though seems a bit like expecting software support people to be developers. While it would be nice if we all could be expertly skilled at any thing we try to do, there are, I think, realistic restrictions on this.

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