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	<title>Comments on: Why MARC drives me nuts</title>
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	<link>http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2008/05/02/why-marc-drives-me-nuts/</link>
	<description>Resources for librarians who are interested in the application of web design and technologies in libraries</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2008/05/02/why-marc-drives-me-nuts/#comment-62353</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 21:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/?p=739#comment-62353</guid>
		<description>Apologies to Mike, whose comment got marked as spam for some reason. I've retrieved it from Akismet and pushed it through. Wish that it had gone through first because hits on many of my underlying frustrations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies to Mike, whose comment got marked as spam for some reason. I&#8217;ve retrieved it from Akismet and pushed it through. Wish that it had gone through first because hits on many of my underlying frustrations.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2008/05/02/why-marc-drives-me-nuts/#comment-62342</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 18:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/?p=739#comment-62342</guid>
		<description>My rant isn't just about MARCXML it is about MARC in general. I do think that in the process of deciding to create MARCXML, someone should have thought about thought about the parts of MARC that really don't work well. Particularly if this is the data format we use to transmit between ourselves and non-libraryfolk. The node names don't make sense (which I acknowledge is a legacy of MARC) but that doesn't make it right or easy to use.

On the subject of XPath, the example I crabbed about is EASY compared to some of the things one has to do to get the right data out of MARCXML. The XPath syntax when one has to get a particular subfield from a particular field with certain indicators, is IMHO extremely convoluted. The two problems I see with using MARCXML is that the person writing the code has to have a pretty good knowledge of XPath to deal with, and that same person needs to understand the intricacies of the MARC record syntax. Frankly, I don't find that all that common in libraries, let alone outside of libraries.

Which leave us caught between using a complex and cumbersome standard - MARCXML and a simpler standard which isn't rich enough from a metadata perspective - Dublin Core. Forgive me but I just don't find that satisfactory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My rant isn&#8217;t just about MARCXML it is about MARC in general. I do think that in the process of deciding to create MARCXML, someone should have thought about thought about the parts of MARC that really don&#8217;t work well. Particularly if this is the data format we use to transmit between ourselves and non-libraryfolk. The node names don&#8217;t make sense (which I acknowledge is a legacy of MARC) but that doesn&#8217;t make it right or easy to use.</p>
<p>On the subject of XPath, the example I crabbed about is EASY compared to some of the things one has to do to get the right data out of MARCXML. The XPath syntax when one has to get a particular subfield from a particular field with certain indicators, is IMHO extremely convoluted. The two problems I see with using MARCXML is that the person writing the code has to have a pretty good knowledge of XPath to deal with, and that same person needs to understand the intricacies of the MARC record syntax. Frankly, I don&#8217;t find that all that common in libraries, let alone outside of libraries.</p>
<p>Which leave us caught between using a complex and cumbersome standard - MARCXML and a simpler standard which isn&#8217;t rich enough from a metadata perspective - Dublin Core. Forgive me but I just don&#8217;t find that satisfactory.</p>
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		<title>By: Jakob</title>
		<link>http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2008/05/02/why-marc-drives-me-nuts/#comment-62339</link>
		<dc:creator>Jakob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 08:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/?p=739#comment-62339</guid>
		<description>I don't understand your rant - sure MARC is a terrible format in some sense, but MARCXML is just an XML-representation of MARC, so don't blame MARCXML but MARC! Like Dan showed you only have to know how to write the right XPath statement. By the way the &lt;em&gt;only&lt;/em&gt; additional value of MARCXML compared to MARC is that you have a character encoding and basic structure in a format that can be used by all common programming libraries. Don't expect more magic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t understand your rant - sure MARC is a terrible format in some sense, but MARCXML is just an XML-representation of MARC, so don&#8217;t blame MARCXML but MARC! Like Dan showed you only have to know how to write the right XPath statement. By the way the <em>only</em> additional value of MARCXML compared to MARC is that you have a character encoding and basic structure in a format that can be used by all common programming libraries. Don&#8217;t expect more magic.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2008/05/02/why-marc-drives-me-nuts/#comment-62331</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 18:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/?p=739#comment-62331</guid>
		<description>To be fair to the creators of MARCXML, "245" would be an invalid element name and wouldn't work with any conforming XML tools. The XML standard (http://www.w3.org/TR/xml/) defines a valid name as:

Name	   ::=   	(Letter &#124; '_' &#124; ':') (NameChar)*

... so it has to begin with a letter, underscore, or colon.

Even if XML allowed numeric names, I don't see how it's significantly more difficult to match nodes with XPath syntax like "//245" vs. "//datafield[@tag='245']". Selecting records based on the value of leader position 18 certainly isn't fun, but then it isn't much fun in MARC21 either.

So MARCXML is nothing more than re-encoding MARC21 in XML format.  The major benefit over MARC21 is that you get to work with standard tools and standard encodings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair to the creators of MARCXML, &#8220;245&#8243; would be an invalid element name and wouldn&#8217;t work with any conforming XML tools. The XML standard (http://www.w3.org/TR/xml/) defines a valid name as:</p>
<p>Name	   ::=   	(Letter | &#8216;_&#8217; | &#8216;:&#8217;) (NameChar)*</p>
<p>&#8230; so it has to begin with a letter, underscore, or colon.</p>
<p>Even if XML allowed numeric names, I don&#8217;t see how it&#8217;s significantly more difficult to match nodes with XPath syntax like &#8220;//245&#8243; vs. &#8220;//datafield[@tag='245']&#8220;. Selecting records based on the value of leader position 18 certainly isn&#8217;t fun, but then it isn&#8217;t much fun in MARC21 either.</p>
<p>So MARCXML is nothing more than re-encoding MARC21 in XML format.  The major benefit over MARC21 is that you get to work with standard tools and standard encodings.</p>
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		<title>By: Alice Sneary</title>
		<link>http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2008/05/02/why-marc-drives-me-nuts/#comment-62320</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice Sneary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 18:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/?p=739#comment-62320</guid>
		<description>Thanks for suffering through the pain, Karen. We're excited about opening up the WorldCat API to a wider audience...and glad that we have smart people like you, thinking about it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for suffering through the pain, Karen. We&#8217;re excited about opening up the WorldCat API to a wider audience&#8230;and glad that we have smart people like you, thinking about it!</p>
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		<title>By: Galen Charlton</title>
		<link>http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2008/05/02/why-marc-drives-me-nuts/#comment-62319</link>
		<dc:creator>Galen Charlton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 17:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/?p=739#comment-62319</guid>
		<description>This reminds me of one of things lost when UKMARC was folded into MARC21: UKMARC didn't require that the punctuation be embedded in the record.  Nor does UNIMARC.  I've often wished that USMARC/MARC21 had taken up that idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me of one of things lost when UKMARC was folded into MARC21: UKMARC didn&#8217;t require that the punctuation be embedded in the record.  Nor does UNIMARC.  I&#8217;ve often wished that USMARC/MARC21 had taken up that idea.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Rylander</title>
		<link>http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/2008/05/02/why-marc-drives-me-nuts/#comment-62318</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Rylander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 16:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.librarywebchic.net/wordpress/?p=739#comment-62318</guid>
		<description>We (the Evergreen team) came to much the same conclusion regarding the utility of manipulating MARCXML directly.  And, we came to the same solution -- use the MODS version of the record instead.  Based on our experience, I would highly recommend that tactic for your next version.

The benefits are pretty clear once you've considered what MODS is actually providing.  As a first-order example, you get semantic interpretation of MARC for free.  For instance, titles, with all their constituent parts, are separated out for simple use using straightforward XPath. This means you don't have to be a cataloger to actually build a display system around the data.  No referencing AACR2, no learning the (sometimes vague and often confusing) interplay between subfields and indicators.  Just simple, straightforward, explicit data with a well thought out structure and layout.

It's hard to overstate just that benefit alone, really, because most library developers are not, in fact, catalogers.

Also, consider newly emerging efforts, such as the Bibliographic CQL Conext Set ( http://www.loc.gov/standards/sru/cql-bibliographic-searching.html ) which explicitly references MODS as the structural model for searching.  Non-cataloger developers, let alone non-library developers, can read that and understand easily and at a glance how to implement a standards-compliant SRU interface to thier data or even how to consume other sites data, MARC or otherwise.  One of the implications is that we can push ourselves and our data out into the wider world by lowering the barriers to entry for library/non-library collaboration.

I may sound like I'm gushing a bit, but I honestly believe that MODS is one of the most important foundational (and, unfortunately, one of the more under-utilized and under-appreciated) technologies that the library world has developed.

--miker</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We (the Evergreen team) came to much the same conclusion regarding the utility of manipulating MARCXML directly.  And, we came to the same solution &#8212; use the MODS version of the record instead.  Based on our experience, I would highly recommend that tactic for your next version.</p>
<p>The benefits are pretty clear once you&#8217;ve considered what MODS is actually providing.  As a first-order example, you get semantic interpretation of MARC for free.  For instance, titles, with all their constituent parts, are separated out for simple use using straightforward XPath. This means you don&#8217;t have to be a cataloger to actually build a display system around the data.  No referencing AACR2, no learning the (sometimes vague and often confusing) interplay between subfields and indicators.  Just simple, straightforward, explicit data with a well thought out structure and layout.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to overstate just that benefit alone, really, because most library developers are not, in fact, catalogers.</p>
<p>Also, consider newly emerging efforts, such as the Bibliographic CQL Conext Set ( <a href="http://www.loc.gov/standards/sru/cql-bibliographic-searching.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.loc.gov/standards/sru/cql-bibliographic-searching.html</a> ) which explicitly references MODS as the structural model for searching.  Non-cataloger developers, let alone non-library developers, can read that and understand easily and at a glance how to implement a standards-compliant SRU interface to thier data or even how to consume other sites data, MARC or otherwise.  One of the implications is that we can push ourselves and our data out into the wider world by lowering the barriers to entry for library/non-library collaboration.</p>
<p>I may sound like I&#8217;m gushing a bit, but I honestly believe that MODS is one of the most important foundational (and, unfortunately, one of the more under-utilized and under-appreciated) technologies that the library world has developed.</p>
<p>&#8211;miker</p>
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